Ovid Metamorphoses
BOOKS 14-15

Chat Transcript 11 
168 lines
August 31, 1999


21:01 Torrey Philemon enters...
21:02 Torrey Philemon: Hello! Ovid chat starting now!
21:04 Myrrhine Philemon enters...
21:04 Myrrhine Philemon: Hello ... just got your gram!
21:04 Morgana Flavius enters...
21:05 Morgana Flavius: Hello ladies!
21:05 Myrrhine Philemon: Hello Morgana :)
21:06 Morgana Flavius: I'm glad you could make it Myrrhine!
21:07 Myrrhine Philemon: I am at a university terminal ... hopefully my friend to the left of me here (also an avid Ovid reader) can help me along with the discussion today!
21:08 Torrey Philemon: Hello Morgana and Myrrhine! I think Nimue will be dropping by for a short time too.....
21:09 Torrey Philemon: I've been very frustrated because I lost my Metamorphoses book a few days ago when I was carrying it around town, planning to read book 15. I had 10 pages of my notes in it too - all gone.......
21:09 Morgana Flavius: Great, Myrrhine! Because I have some questions about Ovid's last book which I did not have time to look into and try to find some answers in the net. Perhaps your friend could help.
21:10 Myrrhine Philemon: oh dear!  I only read it last night - we have been studying the Aeneid in class lately and that has taken up most of my time
21:10 Torrey Philemon: Morgana, what are your questions (I was able to read about 2/3 of book 15 online, all but the last 10 pages)
21:11 Myrrhine Philemon: I am still trying to get my head around Pythagoras - I think it's one of my favourite parts so far
21:12 Torrey Philemon: I agree Myrrhine, the Pythagoras section is very poetic and meaningful....but Ovid sure emphasizes his vegetarian stance!
21:12 Morgana Flavius: Yeah, Torrey... what a pitty you lost your notes!
21:13 Myrrhine Philemon: doesn't he - I really liked that (I'm vegetarian too!)
21:14 Morgana Flavius: Yes, I was also most amazing to find out the "apotheosis" of vegetarianism in Ovid's bood! Was Ovid himself a vegetarian?
21:15 Torrey Philemon: I kept ignoring the vegetarian part and focusing on his messages about how all is change and we are really souls that move from form to form over time ! <-:  (Was Ovid vegetarian himself? Sure sounds like it, or why else would he have given such focus to this speech?)
21:15 Torrey Philemon: Heh, heh, Morgana, great minds question alike!
21:16 Morgana Flavius: And since we're also doing the last part of Book 14, I guess that your fresh studyings about Aeneid will help, Myrrhine, as a part of book 14 is dedicated to Aeneas.
21:16 Myrrhine Philemon: I'm not sure if he was ... would make sense.  Yes I liked the idea of change as well ... I think for me it's a really appealing way of seeing the world
21:17 Torrey Philemon: You mentioned some questions you'd like to raise, Morgana.....
21:17 Myrrhine Philemon: Yes I found Ovid so much easier to read than Virgil on Aeneas ...
21:18 Morgana Flavius: Well, Torrey, but I guess this is what makes Ovid interesting as well as a genius: he can really pretend being someone he is not, through his verses! In the Heroides you can see that working at its fullest. When he writes those letters pretending being famous mytyhological women (Medea, Penelepe, etc., etc.)
21:19 Morgana Flavius: Trivial questions like: was Ovid a vegetarian? Was he a pythagorean or just read it? I mean, WHO was Ovid?! LOL! (Little bit late to ask that, after reading the guy's whole epic!)
21:20 Torrey Philemon: I haven't read the Heroides yet and really look forward to reading them, though I guess here we're going to do The Art of Love first........It may have been very unique though in his time for men to "penetrate" so deeply into the minds of female characters. But then again, we know that Ovid was really into "penetrating" women <-:
21:20 Morgana Flavius: Anyway... should we finish book 14 first?
21:20 Myrrhine Philemon: *S* No a good time to ask!  Sometimes it's better to go to the text first then read it again later knowing a bit more about the man who wrote it IMO :)
21:21 Torrey Philemon: (Not many of us here at A.S. have found Virgil that appealing, Myrrhine! You're not alone!)
21:21 Torrey Philemon: Any topic you want to bring up Morgana, go ahead.......
21:21 Myrrhine Philemon: yes let's go with book 14 *S*
21:21 Morgana Flavius: LOL Torrey!!!
21:23 Morgana Flavius: Yes... In book 14 I was most intrigued by the fact that going through the foundation of Rome, Ovid talks about Romulus, but no word about Remus! And what about the famous she-wolf? Why is she not mentioned? Must have some political reason...
21:24 Torrey Philemon: I'm not very knowledgeable on the Romulus/Remus story. Morgana, is his interpretation very incomplete? He seems to only make indirect references.....
21:24 Myrrhine Philemon: I always thought that the Aeneas myth had taken over in popularity the Romulus/Remus myth under Augustus - maybe Ovid wanted to focus on that
21:25 Morgana Flavius: I am looking into my notes on book 14 (read it a loooooong time ago now). I understand that Romulus is the son of a guy named Ilia? What's Ovid source for that? Someone knows? (Your friend, Myrrhine?)
21:27 Myrrhine Philemon: Ilia was Romulus father?  It is all linked up with the Aeneas myth ... but we are a bit fuzzy on the details over here ...
21:28 Myrrhine Philemon: I don't know that he would have a source as such Morgana - more likely just the folklore carried down
21:28 Morgana Flavius: Well... Aeneas myth does not interfere with Romulus & Remus myth. The twins were sons of Rhea Silvia, a vestal virigin (if I'm not mistaken) who "fell in love with Mars" and bore him the twins.
21:30 Myrrhine Philemon: Yes but I think later there was some connection made between them ... probably false and for political reasons.  The Romulus story is told by Livy I think ...
21:32 Myrrhine Philemon enters...
21:32 Torrey Philemon: Romulus and Remus  http://www.cybercomm.net/~grandpa/romyth.html#romulus
21:34 Torrey Philemon: Also http://www.optonline.com/comptons/ceo/04107_A.html
AND http://geocities.com/~stilicho/romulus.html
21:35 Myrrhine Philemon: Thanks Torrey
21:35 Morgana Flavius: Yeah... and again we see Ovid picking up some not well known source to tell a famous story (such as the foundation of Rome). I really wonder why he skipped the she-wolf story... was this story somehow not welcomed by Augustus?
21:37 Myrrhine Philemon: I think the Julians just preferred to focus on the older foundation story - cement the link with Iulus and Venus even further
21:37 Torrey Philemon: For some reason, I just can't get interested in the Romulus/Remus story except in regard to the kidnapping of the Sabine women (why did they change their mind)? Morgana, Ovid was so sketchy on his references to Romulus and Remus......maybe he just decided to focus on the parts meaningful to him.
21:38 Morgana Flavius: Correct me if my memory fails me: Rhea Sylvia was a descendent of Aeneas... she bore the twins, but being a vestal virgin she could not keep them and threw them on the river. A she-wolf found them and fed them (famous statue of babies suckling the she-wolf). Then a pesant's wife - Acca Lurentia - found them and raised them. They fight. Romulus founded Rome and Remus fades away in the oblivion... nothing in this story would harm the great Aeneas decendants...! Why Ovid skips it?
21:39 Morgana Flavius: Yeah... again, Ovid lets me down... I think the she-wolf story would make wonderful verses! But that's ok... let's move on...
21:41 Torrey Philemon: I was thinking that perhaps it would be demeaning to portray Romulus as being suckled by a she-wolf, but then again Pythagoras is portrayed later as "revering" animals.....
21:41 Morgana Flavius: Another interesting I noticed in the end of Book 14... the emphasis Ovid puts on Hersilia's (Romulus' wife) faithfulness after his death... certainly, another concession Ovid makes to Augustan strict laws on adultery.
21:42 Torrey Philemon: I like the Vertumnus and Pomona story. What's most intriguing is that Vertumnus hid his true form and failed to win Pomona in his disguises, but then finally revealed himself in all his radiance.....and won her over! So here we have a god revealing himself and winning rather than annihilating the woman! (and he didn't even rape her......now here we have a more worthy god!)
21:43 Myrrhine Philemon: Could that not be to do with being a good matrona Morgana ... faithfulness was always prized ... but then we are talking about Ovid!
21:43 Torrey Philemon: "He stood before her in the light of his own radiance, as the sun breaks through the clouds against all opposition. Ready for force, he found no need; Pomona was taken by his beauty, and her passion answered his own."
21:44 Morgana Flavius: The online Metamorphoses text says (about Hersilia, when she's addressed to by Juno): "O matron, glory of the Latin race and of the Sabines"... Sounds like Ovid addressing Livia, Augustus' wife... I always keep in mind that he was already in exile when he wrote the last part of Metamorphoses... desperating trying to win back Augustus' and Livia's favor to go back to his beloved Rome...
21:44 Myrrhine Philemon: Yes I liked that story too Torrey - I kept waiting for the disaster to happen and it never did
21:46 Torrey Philemon: (My impression Morgana - rereading now - isn't that Ovid so much emphasizes Hersilia's faithfulness as he emphasizes another all-consuming love that transcends time. He likes to focus on lovers who are totally devoted to each other.
21:47 Morgana Flavius: That's true, Torrey, about Vertumnos & Pomona... but then again... she was not a mere mortal woman... *g*
21:48 Torrey Philemon: Is it clear that he was in exile when he wrote the last part of Metamorphoses, Morgana. We've been speculating on that, but I'm not sure because the year he finished Metamorphoses and his exile appear to be the same year.
21:48 Morgana Flavius: Yes, Torrey, I guess you're right about Hersilia. Ovid foccused more on "eternal love" rather than faithfulness.
21:49 Torrey Philemon: Ah, you're right, Morgana. I didn't notice that. She was a nymph, not a human. Though it's never been clear to me exactly what a nymph is. Do we have "species" here that are sort of midway between humans and gods - like nymphs and satyrs?
21:49 Morgana Flavius: (Hum... maybe I am confusing Ovid with Dante, Torrey... two banished poets... wrote two wonderful epics... maybe my mind is just mixing the stories...)
21:51 Morgana Flavius: Can Myrrhine's friend bring us some enlightenment on that one? Ovid finished Metamorphoses before or after being exiled?
21:51 Torrey Philemon: What I don't understand is why Vertumnus hid himself in all sorts of disguises when courting her rather than reveal himself as he was to begin with? (Hmm, I wonder if this is metaphorical for how people "hide" themselves, their true selves, at first when getting to know someone new. Out of fear that if they're really known, they'd be rejected)
21:52 Torrey Philemon: I'm not sure you're confused with Dante, Morgana. I just think the timelines we have in regard to Ovid aren't clear in regard to the overlap between his exile and finishing Metamorphoses.
21:53 Morgana Flavius: I read somewhere that nymphs are "spirits" of things... no goddesses, but no mortal women either... Apparently, they were not immortal, but somewhow more than mortals... (what a mess!) But anyway... Dafne was a nymph too, wasn't she? And Apollo was really trying to rape her when she was transformed into the laurel tree...
21:54 Morgana Flavius: Is Myrrhine still with us?
21:55 Myrrhine Philemon: Yes i am still here - I keep forgetting the hit the refresh button so I am a couple steps behind *S*
21:56 Morgana Flavius: Good question, Torrey. I guess that Vertumnos knew that Pomona would reject him if he showed her his full intentions right away. So he decided to try a strategy of pretending he was NOT interested in her... in sort of trying to "lower her defenses"... a pretty common strategy among lovers, specially when they're friends first...
21:56 Torrey Philemon: I just read online that Ovid published the Metamorphoses in 9AD and he was banished in 9AD. If he published it the same year he was exiled, then chances are he finished it a number of months before publishing. Also the page on his exile refers to the five books he wrote in exile, and Metamorphoses isn't one of them.
21:57 Torrey Philemon: (At least it's easier to hit the refresh button Myrrhine than deal with a hyperactive screen!)
21:57 Myrrhine Philemon: I just felt like he was trying everyway he knew to win her over
21:59 Torrey Philemon: "Metamorphoses appeared when Ovid was 52 years old. The work reflected the same disillusionment of his generation as richly erotic Art of Love. Characteristic for the epic is the view about the unpredictable nature of things and instability of the forms of nature, in which a woman is transformed into a bird, stones become people, a girl becomes a laurel tree." Reading this just makes me aware that a subtext for Ovid may be "you can't count on anything or anyone. The rug can be pulled out from under you at any time"
22:00 Morgana Flavius: I guess we all agree that among all the terrible stories of women being raped and then destroyed by gods (and men), the Vertumnos & Pomona story was an oasis in the middle of a huge desert! *g*
22:01 Torrey Philemon: (Am still trying to clarify the timeline, Morgana, but really don't know if Ovid finished Metamorphoses before exile or not)
22:02 Morgana Flavius: Yes, Ovid seems to try to convey exactly that, Torrey: no matter what good (or bad)  you do in your life, if bad luck is after you, it will get you!
22:04 Torrey Philemon: Do you want to move onto Book 15?
22:04 Myrrhine Philemon: I think it's all to do with the 'changing' of nature that comes out in Pythagoras too ... things change and what can you do but go with the flow?
22:05 Torrey Philemon: In a way, Pythagoras' discourse, near the end of the book, seems to be summing up the theme, don't you think? About change.......
22:06 Myrrhine Philemon: Yes I really felt that as I came to the end of the story ... this was what I had been reading about all along
22:06 Torrey Philemon: I liked the focus on how nothing dies, that "we are not bodies only, but winged spirits." That after this life we find "new dwelling places". I wonder how much reincarnation was accepted at this time. Wasn't it associated with mystery religions?
22:10 Morgana Flavius: I was just going to bring the reincarnation subject up, Torrey! Have you noticed the verses where Pythagoras actually says he remembers one of his previous lives? I found that amazing!
22:11 Myrrhine Philemon: which verse was that Morgana?  Reincarnation was associated with the cult of Isis ... her's was partly mystery ... I don't know about the others though
22:15 Morgana Flavius: In the online Metamorphoses (Perseus project) Book 15, line 244: "I can declare, for I remember well, that in the days of the great Trojan War, I was Euphorbus, son of Panthous."
22:17 Morgana Flavius: I knew that Pythagoras was much into metempsychosis (spell?), that is the migration of a human soul into an animal body. But a direct reference to reincarnation like "I was such person in a previous life" I had never seen before... and I wonder how much is Pythagoras and how much is Ovid in that phrase...
22:17 Torrey Philemon: And he says, "I have seen oceans that once were solid land, and I have seen lands that once were ocean." Interesting, I didn't notice before that he mentioned a past life (Eurphorbus)
22:17 Myrrhine Philemon: Oh I think my notes say someting about that being impossible ... I will check ...
22:21 Torrey Philemon: Do we know much about Ovid's involvement in mystery religion, Pythagorean cults etc.? You're right, Morgana......it's hard to decipher Pythagoras from Ovid here unless you're an expert on Pythagoras......
22:21 Myrrhine Philemon: yes my notes say that Pythagoras cannot have 'remembered' as Euphorbus that occasion, which took place not at Troy by at Buthrotum ...
22:21 Torrey Philemon: When did Pythagoras live, anyway?
22:23 Morgana Flavius: Yes, if he was someone that lived in the time of the Trojan War, that was around the 11th century BC. And Pythagoras lived around the 5th century BC (if I'm not mistaken).
22:23 Torrey Philemon: Ha! The International Vegetarian Union's web site has a page on Pythagoras ! <-:   http://www.ivu.org/people/history/pythagoras.html
22:24 Torrey Philemon: "Pythagoras, the ancient Greek sage who gave us the Pythagorean theorem, was also the father of vegetarianism in the West. In fact, Berry explains that until the late 19th-century people who ate meatless diets were called "Pythagoreans."
22:25 Torrey Philemon: "One of the more revolutionary aspects of the Pythagorean community was the equal admission of men and women. Indeed, the association of vegetanan sects with male and female equality is as common as the association of a meatless diet with pacifism. Property was also held communally by the Pythagoreans. The Orphic belief in transmigration of the soul, or metempsychosis, was accepted and developed further. Thus, if a man may reappear as an animal, flesh-eating is little better than cannibalism. A story is often told that Pythagoras, upon hearing the cries of a dog, instructed the villain to stop the assault. "Stop, for in the pup's yelps I can hear the voice of a friend," Pythagoras supposedly said. This is taken to be an explanation of metempsychosis. However, others interpret it as Pythagoras' acceptance of the dog as an equal friend, whose cries he hears. "
22:25 Myrrhine Philemon: i was thinking as I read this that I really should read Lucretious to really understand the Epicurean references ...
22:27 Morgana Flavius: What do your notes say, Myrrhine? Euphorbos was not a Trojan warrior? But Pythagoras even goes one and says that he was killed by one of the sons of Atreus (Agamemnon of Menelaus)... I don't understand...
22:31 Myrrhine Philemon: I think it's saying that what Pythagoras descibes as seeomg as Euphorbus didn't really happen ... but I could be wrong ... I find it all a little confusing!
22:33 Torrey Philemon: Great site on the presocratics here, with Pythagoras.....   http://ancienthistory.miningco.com/library/weekly/aa011299.htm?TMog=25601506193026m&Mint=606782334103013
22:34 Morgana Flavius: Again, as Torrey said, we don't know how much is Pythagoras and how much is Ovid. But by reading Ovid's verses, there is no doubt he says that Pythagoras was a Trojan warrior.
22:36 Myrrhine Philemon: Oh yes I think that is all true ... I think the problem is with the timing of what he says and where the action took place *S*  Euphorbus couldn't have seen what he says because he was a trojan in troy and what he describes took place in Buthrotum ... does that make sense?
22:38 Torrey Philemon: I simply view the Euphorbus reference as his reference to himself in a past life.......
22:39 Myrrhine Philemon: hehehe I think I'm just confusing myself and everyone else *G*
22:40 Morgana Flavius: Yes, I understood the verses like that too, Torrey: a reference to Pythagoras' past life as Euphorbus.
22:41 Torrey Philemon: This is also a nice Pythagoras site. http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Pythagoras.html  And it says ". His school practised secrecy and communalism making it hard to distinguish between the work of Pythagoras and that of his followers"
22:43 Torrey Philemon: I'm not sure what you're saying Myrrhine, but my sense is that it's that Ovid's reference to Euphorbus is not historically accurate. But perhaps one could have hazy memories of a past life, but not be sure of the some of the specific details.
22:45 Myrrhine Philemon: Yes I think that's what I'm saying ... the history is out but I fully agree that he is conveying a past life experience
22:48 Torrey Philemon: A site on Pythagorean mysticism here  http://home.fireplug.net/~rshand/streams/gnosis/pythagoras.html  
Very interesting! Pythagoreans didn't cut their hair or nails, treated women equally, lived the simple life. I think they were a wonderful class of early hippies, don't you? Perhaps we would have all been Pythagoreans back then. (Actually I'm having some dejavu right now. During my months of living in Greece, the place I most felt at home was Samos, the home of Pythagoras. I felt like I had lived there once)
22:49 Myrrhine Philemon: Did you notice that Ovid never calls Pythagoras by his name ... he is just the man from Samnos ...
22:51 Torrey Philemon: Is there anything else from book 15 that you two want to discuss before we end for tonight? This is our LAST Metamorphoses chat! (We need to have a post-Metamporphoses party. Maybe we can all come transformed into our favorite objects!)
22:52 Morgana Flavius: Right, Myrrhine... I wonder if there's a reason for that...
22:52 Myrrhine Philemon: Hehehe ahhh I think Pythagoras just about does it for me *S*  I didn't like the apotheosis of Ceasar very much (Love the party idea Torrey!)
22:55 Torrey Philemon: I haven't read the last 10 pages yet....just read up to Cipus. Any other comments, Morgana?
22:57 Morgana Flavius: I like the Metamorphoses party, Torrey! But before we finish, I'd like to recall some commments made many months ago, when we were just starting our Metamorphosis readings.
22:57 Torrey Philemon: You know, seriously, we've spent so many months on this book, I think we ought to have a "wrap-up" before we move on. Maybe one more meeting for which we each do a little more reading on one story that most interested us and present it to the rest of us. And then just "party" afterwards!
22:58 Torrey Philemon: Yes, Morgana, what comments?
22:58 Myrrhine Philemon: Yes I like that idea ... I would be happy to do that with my favourite story(ies)
23:00 Morgana Flavius: It is interesting how some comments posted by our friend Lusinda (I always regret that she could not come to our chats anymore). Phrases that only made sense to me after realizing them by myself, after reading the poem.
23:00 Torrey Philemon: Any particular comments, Morgana?
23:02 Morgana Flavius: Quoting her: "It seems to me that we have a couple threads here: the myths themselves and the particular spin Ovid puts on them, which is always witty and probably subversive of 'mos maiorum', the traditional Roman values."
23:03 Morgana Flavius: Couldn't agree more with Lusinda!
23:03 Torrey Philemon: Now that we've read the book, maybe we can stand back and look at, hmm, what was Ovid trying to do here? What attitude permeates his writing, as well as what themes......
23:04 Morgana Flavius: She also said that we must remember that these are originally Greek stories and Ovid was retelling them (very much in his own way) for a Roman audience. He made changes and additions that are not in the original versions.
23:05 Torrey Philemon: (Nimue just icqed me to let me know she's been caught up in a delightful movie on tv!)
23:05 Myrrhine Philemon: Yes I think that's very important to remember about the Greek beginning *showing my bias* it's also interesting to see which version of the myth Ovid prefers or uses ... sometimes that can be significant
23:06 Morgana Flavius: Sorry, I must make a correction! Lusinda was actually quoting Pomponia Tullius.
23:06 Torrey Philemon: I wonder to what extent Ovid had a conscious intention - in regard to points he was trying to make - and how much he was just following his "Muse". Some writers don't consciously plan to make certain points or take a certain slant on things....It just sort of happens as they give free rein to their inspiration (Muse).
23:07 Morgana Flavius: Anyhow... we learned the long way (although not the hard one, I must say) how Ovid really plays with myths according to some personal or political reason. And it was good to discuss all that with my friends here!
23:09 Torrey Philemon: Yes, and I want to add to what Morgana just said.....that is really makes a difference to be able to dialogue about what we read (as well as monologue, but knowing that we have an audience <-:. It's so much more motivating and mind-expanding then just reading on one's own. So thank you!
23:09 Myrrhine Philemon: Yes it was!  In fact I have to say that these chats have been the best thing about AS for me since I arrived here!
23:09 Morgana Flavius: It sounds as if I'm saying farewell, but I'm not. I'd like to have one more chat, and maybe a party afterwards, about Metamorphoses. (Yes, Torrey, it could be just Ovid going with his Muses' flow, although I can hardly believe that.)
23:10 Torrey Philemon: So do you all want to do one more Metamorphoses meeting, a presentation and party? (Scheduling isn't easy!)
23:11 Morgana Flavius: So, when do we meet again, ladies, for our last Metamorphoses show? *g*
23:12 Myrrhine Philemon: Yes I do ... weekends or this time Tues nights are ok for me!  A week or two to prepare my presentation would be nice too!
23:13 Torrey Philemon: I'm leaving for vacation soon and then starting a fairly rigorous teaching schedule....and am away for several weekend around my birthday later this month, so timing is tough. Do you continue to have Wednesday time, Myrrhine. The one evening I could do though it would be tight would be about 8-10 pm on Tuesday September 14. Also could do Friday September 17 evening (Saturday for Myrrhine).
23:15 Morgana Flavius: I basically have free evenings this month.
23:15 Myrrhine Philemon: Tues or Friday are good for me Torrey (I know the birthday problem - mine was last Friday, my father's last Saturday - no end of scheduling problems!)
23:16 Torrey Philemon: (Aren't you an October birthday, Morgana?)
23:17 Torrey Philemon: How about Friday September 17? I'm not going to have time to prepare for Tuesday, and I'll be away from the computer for a week in early September. (withdrawal!!)
23:17 Morgana Flavius: No, I'm a December b-day. :o)
23:17 Torrey Philemon: 8 or 9pm Friday September 17?
23:18 Torrey Philemon: That's right, you're a Sagittarius, right, Morgana?
23:18 Torrey Philemon: (A belated happy birthday, Myrrhine)
23:20 Myrrhine Philemon: (thanks Torrey) ahhh 9 pm would be better for me ... is that too late for you Morgana?
23:21 Morgana Flavius: Yes, from me too, Myrrhine!
23:21 Torrey Philemon: ok 9pm Friday September 17. Just curious.....any idea what story you'd both want to "present"? I have an abiding interest in the Daphne story, so that may be my focus.
23:21 Myrrhine Philemon: Thank Morgana too!
23:22 Morgana Flavius: No, 9pm is fine for me. Sold then, September 17, 9pm for last Metamorphoses chat and party!
23:22 Myrrhine Philemon: For me either Proserpine or Arethusa ...
23:22 Torrey Philemon: Let's see if we can lure back some of our other Ovid readers....too bad we can't appear in costumes!
23:22 Morgana Flavius: I like Europa & the Bull story.
23:23 Torrey Philemon: Proserpine or Arethusa.....those are both great stories!
23:23 Torrey Philemon: Now I wonder why we chose stories of women.....? <-:
23:24 Torrey Philemon: Notice also that we're choosing stories from earlier in the book....I think that Ovid somewhat deteriorated later in the book......
23:24 Myrrhine Philemon: hehehe well I think it's fair to say that we all liked the women much more!
23:25 Torrey Philemon: Maybe we could each do an introductory post on our topic before our "party" if we have time.......
23:26 Myrrhine Philemon: Ok ... that gives me incentive to write something properly!
23:27 Morgana Flavius: I had the same feeling, Torrey.
23:28 Morgana Flavius: Excellent! Now, ladies, I must go... half past midnight here... It has been really, really great to share Metamorphoses with you! Good night!
23:28 Torrey Philemon: Let's spread the word. I'll tell Nimue and encourage her to choose a myth.
23:29 Torrey Philemon: Goodbye Morgana and Myrrhine! I'm so glad we found a time we all could meet.
23:29 Myrrhine Philemon: Goodnight Morgana!  See you for the party *S*
23:29 Myrrhine Philemon: Bye Torrey!
23:30 Myrrhine Philemon exits...
23:30 Morgana Flavius exits...
23:31 Torrey Philemon exits...

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