Ovid Metamorphoses Chat Eight, Book 10-11, June 5, 1999

18:52 Morgana Flavius enters...
18:54 Morgana Flavius: Hello! Waiting for the participants of chat on Ovid's "Metamorphoses", Books 10 and 11.
18:54 Myrrhine Philemon enters...
18:55 Myrrhine Philemon: Hello
18:55 Morgana Flavius: Hello, Myrrhine!
18:56 Myrrhine Philemon: Hi Morgana, I've missed these chats!
18:57 Torrey Philemon enters...
18:57 Nimue Cormac enters...
18:57 Morgana Flavius: I'm looking forward to this one tonight!
18:57 Torrey Philemon: Oh Morgana! You're here already. Great (and you too Myrrhine) I just posted my second post on book 11 a minute ago.......
18:57 Myrrhine Philemon: Hi Torrey, Nimue :)
18:57 Nimue Cormac: hi everyone torry will be here soon
18:58 Morgana Flavius: Welcome ladies!
18:59 Torrey Philemon: oh what a lovely group we have again!
18:59 Torrey Philemon: hey nimue i've been meaning to tell you I'm torrey not torry!
18:59 Myrrhine Philemon: Does anyone mind if I do a lot of observation this time round? I'm in the midst of exams and I'm only half way through book 11
18:59 Morgana Flavius: Hi Torrey, Nimue! I was reaading the link on Orpheus in the Renaisance.
19:00 Nimue Cormac: sorry about that. i'll do better.
19:00 Torrey Philemon: i only had a chance to skim the material on Orpheus in the Renaissance but it looked VERY interesting......!
19:01 Torrey Philemon: glad you're back with us, Myrrhine......I hope you'll share reflections on what you have read though!
19:01 Torrey Philemon: Let's hear what everyone would like to talk about. Any topics of interest from book 10 and 11?
19:01 Myrrhine Philemon: I'll do my best Torrey!
19:04 Torrey Philemon: Topics?
19:04 Morgana Flavius: Yes, very interesting. I haven't read it all, but it seems that Orpheus had been seen as the guy who lead the Greeks to the "true" religion (monotheism) in the Middle Ages and that Renaissance brought the real myth back to its original shape.
19:06 Morgana Flavius: I guess that I finally figured out why Orpheus was torn to pieces by the Maenads... but this Ovid does not say. I found it by reading related articles.
19:06 Torrey Philemon: On the one hand Orpheus is associated with Dionysius and on the other hand Orphism seems to be the rival of the Dionysian mysteries....sort of like the polarity between Apollonian and Dionysian ways of being.......or the gentle and lyrical and the wild and passionate......
19:07 Torrey Philemon: I posted several of the explanations (all very different) I found on why Orpheus was dismembered by Maenads. What is your understanding or interpretation?
19:09 Torrey Philemon: In Metamorphoses, The Maenads say, "He's there, the man who dares to scorn us," before they attack Orpheus and rip him to pieces.
19:09 Morgana Flavius: I understand it as you said, Torrey: first Orpheus initiated a rite that was opposed to the existing dionysic ones. Appollo vs. Dionysos, gentle vs. lyrical, and so on...
19:10 Torrey Philemon: Myrrhine and Nimue.....how do you understand or react to the Maenads tearing Orpheus to pieces? How do you make sense of it?
19:11 Myrrhine Philemon: Sorry I have been reading as I sit here ... I too saw it as symbolic of the struggle of opposites ...
19:11 Nimue Cormac: i must admit, i hadn't heard the story before. and not knowing a lot about greek myths i was and still am a bit confused.
19:12 Nimue Cormac: Were orpheus ans dionisus opposites?
19:12 Torrey Philemon: I'm suddenly reflecting on how alcoholics react to alcohol. There are those who get all drowsy and spacey and ethereal (the Orphic reaction) and those who get aggressive or violent (the Dionysian reaction).....It's always been hard for me to understand the violence of the Maenads and the cult of Dionysius but thinking of alcoholism makes it more understandable. Various reactions to intoxicants, and the freeing of the unconscious.........
19:13 Nimue Cormac: I thought orpheus was a follower of the god,
19:13 Myrrhine Philemon: yes that occured to me too ... the drinking of wine and the outrageous passion
19:13 Torrey Philemon: nimue, one of the commentaries I just read suggests that they are opposites. I hadn't encountered this interpretation before...........Supposedly Orpheus initially embraced the Dionysian mysteries but then tried to "reform" them or alter them to his own purposes.......
19:14 Nimue Cormac: i thought it was interesting that the maenids were the same as the muses in one interpretation. a lot of artists and writers have substance abuse problems.
19:15 Torrey Philemon: yes that connection between the maenads and muses is interesting. never saw that one before either.
19:15 Nimue Cormac: perhaps ovid is alluding to this
19:15 Morgana Flavius: Yes, Torrey, that's what I understood from the side articles I read. Ovid alone does not make it clear.
19:16 Torrey Philemon: It's as if the maenads and Dionysus reflect the lower unconscious or subconscious and the Muses and Orpheus the higher unconscious or superconscious......
19:17 Myrrhine Philemon: I just felt that Orphues' character was opposed to what Dionysis represents ... but that does come from my memories of the story elsewhere, not from Ovid in particular
19:17 Torrey Philemon: I suspect that part of our confusion is due to the myths being changed as Orphism and the Dionysian mysteries develop. There are many different versions of the stories.
19:19 Torrey Philemon: Personally I find the dismemberment of Orpheus one of the most difficult myths to accept. I'm sure we've all had experiences of our most vulnerable, sensitive, poetic sides being attacked or ripped apart by the brutality of others. That's what is triggers in me.....the violence against the innocent and beautiful......
19:20 Nimue Cormac: pure vandalism
19:20 Myrrhine Philemon: Yes that is disturbing Torrey ... almost as if there if creativity and beuty is there to be destroyed
19:21 Nimue Cormac: i can't understand that either....but if e did we would be quite dangerous
19:22 Morgana Flavius: But after the violence, Orpheus seems to have found peace again, at Euridyce's side... apparently, they lived happily ever after, in the underworld.
19:23 Torrey Philemon: What would attract people to the Dionysian mysteries anyway, or possession by the Maenads? It seems kind of barbarous.....I don' t think there's any equivalent in our society except for perhaps the wild new forms of music that adolescents are always attracted to, punk rock in the 90s....in Roman times, I think of the gladiators......ritualized madness and violence.....
19:23 Myrrhine Philemon: I read the Ovid is the only version with such a happy ending ... does anyone know of it occuring anywhere else?
19:23 Nimue Cormac: i wonder if he didn't welcome death...as it brought him back to his only love
19:23 Torrey Philemon: the gods and goddesses do seem to allow those who loved deeply in life to be with their beloved after death.
19:24 Torrey Philemon: interesting, myrrhine. what are the endings in other versions of the story?
19:25 Nimue Cormac: what exactly was the roman veiw of the afterlife?
19:25 Myrrhine Philemon: Oh that I am unsure of ... it was just a note to my text and I didn't have time to do a comparative reading
19:26 Nimue Cormac: does the average joe go to the afterlife or is that just for gods and heros?
19:26 Nimue Cormac enters...
19:27 Torrey Philemon: nimue, in the aeneid there is an important chapter on the roman view of the afterlife, very different from the greek view. it reflects the orphic mysteries......the resurrection and immortality promised those of faith.
19:28 Myrrhine Philemon: Nimue I don't think they had a concept of an 'afterlife' at all ... resurrenction or afterlife really came from the influence of eastern religions
19:28 Nimue Cormac enters...
19:28 Torrey Philemon: And then the resurrection stories of Orpheus influenced the development of Christianity, as most of the first Christians were followers of the Orphic mysteries.
19:29 Morgana Flavius: Nimue, that's an interesting question. I know that the Greeks viewed life "after life" as an existence as phantom in the Elysium Fields for those who deserve it. I know that Helen of Troy lived there, now Orpheus & Euridyce... and some others which I don't remember. I guess Romans just followed the Greeks on that. Virgil also wrote a bit about the afterlife in the underworld in his Aeneid.
19:30 Nimue Cormac: coming from a celtic veiwpoint. i just wondered. celts had a very definite belief in reincarnation
19:30 Torrey Philemon: There is really a significant difference between Virgil and Homer. Virgil's portrayal is very mystical, very influenced by the Mysteries....(Am trying to remember the material from our Aeneid chats and studies earlier in the year.....)
19:30 Myrrhine Philemon: it was my understanding that the traditional roman religion is that you were honoured by your family after death but that was about it ... though reading what torrey has said perhaps I am wrong
19:31 Morgana Flavius: And what was the Greek view, Torrey?
19:33 Nimue Cormac: from recent reading i got the feeling trhat romans had little belief in afterlife
19:34 Torrey Philemon: Here's a good reference.....http://home.fireplug.net/~rshand/streams/gnosis/purify.html The Greek view was that after death, as a shade, one lived a shadowy empty existence, if one can even call it existence. It's no real afterlife.......hardly anyone got to the Elysian fields.
19:34 Torrey Philemon: Nimue, my guess is that the average Roman was not a follower of the Orphic mysteries.......
19:35 Myrrhine Philemon: The eastern religions which offered an idea of afterlife did catch on to a point though ... looking at Mithra, Isis, Dionysis ...
19:35 Torrey Philemon: Book six of the Aeneid certainly presents a mystical view of the afterlife. But because Virgil presented it doesn't mean that most Romans believed it. I'm not sure what most Romans believed.
19:36 Morgana Flavius: Yes, I know that Greeks and Romans did not connected much their morality during their life on earth with some reward after death...
19:37 Myrrhine Philemon: that's right ... if they offended a god they paid the price during lifetime, not after death
19:38 Torrey Philemon: Here's a page comparing the Greek and Roman views of death.... http://www.calvin.edu/academic/clas/cl231u11.htm
19:39 Nimue Cormac: so roman religion was more a social thing??
19:40 Myrrhine Philemon: how do you mean social nimue?
19:41 Nimue Cormac: not a spiritual experience but a thing everybodt "does"
19:41 Torrey Philemon: (one a.s. member Gaius Flavius wrote this page on Orphism promising a blissful afterlife http://www.ancientsites.com/~Gaius_Flavius/Orphic_Underworld.htm )
19:42 Myrrhine Philemon: I saw roman religion described as a personal contractual arrangement ... in that sense I guess it was social ...
19:43 Torrey Philemon: Nimue, Orphism was very much based upon faith and very mystical. But I don't know what percentage of Romans followed it. Does anyone? It certainly did have a big impact on early Christianity however.
19:44 Morgana Flavius: Apparently, in the middle ages, there were people trying to "force" a link between Orpheus and Christ. Does anyone know a bit more about that?
19:44 Nimue Cormac: the more i study the more i see romans as totally bussinessmen. they saw everything as profit and loss
19:45 Myrrhine Philemon: It's difficult to know the percentage of people that followed given cults Torrey, particularly the mystery cults ... also various Emperors often tried to suppress them and reintroduce the traditional roman values which were represented in by the traditional roman gods
19:46 Nimue Cormac: thats not necessarily bad
19:47 Myrrhine Philemon: I did a paper on Isis earlier this year ... she attracted a large following mainly because she offered a more 'spritiual experience'
19:47 Morgana Flavius: The religion that caused the biggest impact in early Christianity was Mithraism. I studied that for a while. The similarities between christian and mitraic rites are amazing. Including the tradition of taking Sunday as the day dedicated to god and December 25 as the day of the birth of the "messiah".
19:47 Torrey Philemon: Nimue, the followers of the mystery religions were just about the opposite of practical businessmen, Nimue. The focus was on spiritual purification, faith, redemption, preparing for an idyllic afterlife. The body and physical reality were deemed unimportant; spiritual reality was everything.
19:47 Nimue Cormac: did the early romans have their own gods before they borrowed the greek ones?
19:48 Myrrhine Philemon: yes nimue, they tended to be associated with the cardinal virtues and family ... household gods and such
19:49 Morgana Flavius: Nimue, yes, Romans had their own gods before borrowing the Greek ones. Most of them were connected to the simple life of agricultural tribes.
19:49 Nimue Cormac: there must have been a need for that in the empire...for it to have had such an impact
19:50 Torrey Philemon: Morgana, is there any connection between Mithraism and the Orphic mysteries?
19:51 Nimue Cormac: in my mind rome's greatset strength was her ability to adapt the cutures they conquered to their own way of life. this included religion
19:52 Torrey Philemon: Just found this quote: ""The followers of Orpheus turned the Dionysian method on its head, seeking ecstasy through abstinence and rites of purification, denying the senses rather than using them as vehicles for bliss."
19:53 Morgana Flavius: I had not seen any connection between Orphism and Mitraism except that they are both mystery relgions. Mitraism came from Persia. And they had a "trinity" as gods... the father, the son (who came to earth to teach men the mysteties = Mitra) and a sort of holy spiriti which oversaw the life of humans so lead them to the "good road".
19:53 Myrrhine Philemon: yes, the romans were very adaptable and tolerant to a point, the only time the stamped out other religions was when they could be the launching point of political dissent
19:53 Torrey Philemon: Here's a page on the same site on the Mithraic mysteries and Isis....http://home.fireplug.net/~rshand/streams/gnosis/mithra.html
19:54 Nimue Cormac: like the jews
19:54 Myrrhine Philemon: Yes, exactly like the Jews, also the Druids ...
19:55 Nimue Cormac: i hate to do this.....but i have to go. and we barely got started. will there be a continuation of this at a later date or should i just post my thoughts on the board?
19:56 Torrey Philemon: Are we getting too far away from Metamorphoses? Any other comments on Orpheus in Metamorphoses before we go onto any of the other stories?
19:56 Nimue Cormac: neither one of those were something the average roman could understand
19:57 Morgana Flavius: Anyhow, I have not found much on Orphic rites... does anyone know what they consisted of?
19:57 Torrey Philemon enters...
19:58 Myrrhine Philemon: I don't know much about the Orphic rights either Morgana ...
19:58 Torrey Philemon: nimue, we'll continue our ovid chats....please post your thoughts on our bulletin board!
19:59 Morgana Flavius: Well, yes, Torrey, maybe we should just move forward... I really liked the Ceyx and Halcynoe myth... I had not heard it before reading it in Ovid.
20:00 Torrey Philemon: (If you want to learn more about the Orphic mysteries, bookmark these links http://www.ancientsites.com/~torrey_philemon/calliope/aeneid2.htm#UNDERWORLD I put them together here but haven't had a chance to read most of the pages. Looks like very interesting information though.
20:01 Torrey Philemon: Morgana what thoughts do you have on the Ceyx myth? I hadn't read that one before either.
20:01 Morgana Flavius: I will look into those links, Torrey.
20:02 Myrrhine Philemon: I still haven't read it ... I'll have a look now ...
20:03 Morgana Flavius: It's a nice "love story" for a change... :o))))
20:04 Torrey Philemon: Isn't there a common theme here too.....two devoted lovers who are separated prematurely in life are later united again in death......?
20:04 Morgana Flavius: And the way Ovid describes the moment of Halcyone's transformation into a bird... "en plein air"...! And afterwards, when Ceyx turned into a bird too and they lived together forever... ohhhh! so romantic!
20:06 Myrrhine Philemon: I see what you mean, even the language changes ... my translation has become much more poetical for this story
20:07 Morgana Flavius: yes... just like Orpheus and Euridyce, Ceyx and Halcynoe were united after death... but again, this happy ending in Orpheus and maybe the entire story of Ceyx & Halcyone could have been Ovid's own fabrication...
20:07 Torrey Philemon: Ovid doesn't say what kind of birds they became.
20:09 Morgana Flavius: that's true... but somehow I had the impression they were turned into helicons... dont' ask me why... :-)
20:09 Myrrhine Philemon: my translation says kingfishers torrey ...
20:11 Myrrhine Philemon: to quote "Ovid's charming picture of their sea-borne nest and the 'halcyon days' faithfully reflects ancient scientific teaching; the aition is his [ovid's] own"
20:12 Torrey Philemon: interesting, kingfishers........I just did a search in another window and found a number of pages on this story, with other literary references...... http://www.bulfinch.org/fables/bull9.html
20:13 Torrey Philemon: http://www.hsa.brown.edu/~maicar/Ceyx.html
20:15 Torrey Philemon: My translation calls her Alcyone not Halycon.....here's a page from the Alceon corporation that tells the myth, and refers to them as kingfishers also, and refers also to "halcyon".......
20:15 Torrey Philemon: http://www.alceon.com/alcy.html
20:16 Myrrhine Philemon: yes she is Alcyone in my translation too
20:19 Torrey Philemon: Does anyone know what the Aberdeen Bestiary project is? This page refers to the seabird, the Halycon http://www.clues.abdn.ac.uk:8080/besttest/alt/translat/trans54v.html
20:20 Myrrhine Philemon: I wonder if Halcyon is just a different transliteration from the greek?
20:20 Torrey Philemon: "The halcyon is a seabird which produces its young on the shore, depositing its eggs in the sand, around midwinter. It chooses as the time to hatch its young, the period when the sea is at its highest and the waves break more fiercely than usual on the shore; with the result that the grace with which this bird is endowed shines forth the more, with the dignity of an unexpected calm. "
20:22 Torrey Philemon: "This little bird is endowed by God with such grace that sailors know with confidence that these fourteen days will be days of fine weather and call them 'the halcyon days', in which there will be no period of stormy weather."
20:22 Morgana Flavius: I was looking for the meaning of halcyon in Portuguese... it's a bird I am not familiar with.
20:23 Myrrhine Philemon: we have kingfishers in Australia but I have never heard of a Halcyone ... only the halcyone days
20:23 Torrey Philemon: Just read that the Bestiary manuscript is a 4th century manuscript about real and imaginary birds. It was written in Alexandria, and has a page on the Halycon bird, with pictures.....
20:24 Torrey Philemon: It's really a gorgeous manuscript. Here's the 2nd page.... http://www.clues.abdn.ac.uk:8080/besttest/alt/translat/trans55r.html (right click on a link to see it in the other window)
20:25 Myrrhine Philemon: it is lovely Torrey ... is that the halcyon or the coot?
20:25 Torrey Philemon: This is the halcyon bird from the 4th century...... http://www.clues.abdn.ac.uk:8080/besttest/alt/jpeg/f54v.jpg
20:26 Torrey Philemon: That second page may have been the coot, Myrrhine. The link I just gave was from the first page about the halycon.
20:26 Myrrhine Philemon: *S* well it looks nothing like our kingfishers!
20:28 Torrey Philemon: Bullfinch refers to halcyon birds too, not kingfishers. I wonder if halcyons are recognized as real birds though.
20:29 Torrey Philemon: Here's a page on Ceyx and kingfishers http://www.mysticflame.com/cyberwitch/totems/kgfisher.html
20:29 Myrrhine Philemon: oh that is interesting ... just a mythical explanation for calm weather ...
20:32 Torrey Philemon: By the way, I know I'm always running off doing quick searches. The secret is using Metacrawler at http://www.metacrawler.com/ Fastest effective search online!
20:32 Torrey Philemon: Now I ought to be quiet and let you all raise some Ovid topics!
20:32 Myrrhine Philemon: Thanks Torrey, I use metacrawler a lot too!
20:33 Morgana Flavius: I lerned that trick too, Torrey, and it is really useful! I am looking to the pictures on the other window and it's lovely!
20:33 Myrrhine Philemon: Well as I said earlier I'm hopelessly underprepared ... I'm not sure that I have any specific Ovid ideas to raise :)
20:35 Torrey Philemon: Well I'm glad you joined us anyway, Myrrhine. Do you have anything else you want to discuss, Morgana?
20:35 Morgana Flavius: Actually, books 10 and 11 did not have so many interesting stories. Apart from Orpheus and this Ceyx myth (which is told in many verses, have noticed it?), nothing has caught my attention in any particualr way.
20:36 Torrey Philemon: I've had a longtime interest in the Atalanta story in book 10.....we haven't discussed that. Have you read it, Myrrhine?
20:36 Myrrhine Philemon: Yes I read it a while ago ...
20:37 Myrrhine Philemon: It was always one of my favourite stories as a child but I don't think I was ever told the ending
20:38 Morgana Flavius: Oh, yes, Atalanta. Just a moment, I think I wrote something about that in my notebook.
20:39 Myrrhine Philemon: Oh goodness ... the time escaped me ... I really must go
20:40 Myrrhine Philemon: I may post something on Atlanta a little later ...
20:40 Morgana Flavius: Oh, I'm sorry to hear that you have to go, Myrrhine! But it was great to have you with us this evening! morning for you, I believe...
20:40 Torrey Philemon: Ovid says that the golden apples come from the Cypriot field of Tamasus, but I always thought of the golden apples of the Hesperides in greek mythology. Perhaps there are different sets of golden apples. (Bye Myrrhine. Hope you'll post soon on our bulletin board!)
20:44 Morgana Flavius: The myth of Myrrha was very interesting too. It comes before Atalanta, I believe... Again, Ovid gives a very interesting description of the feelings of Myrrha at the very moment she was being transformed into the tree... Here he shows his skill with poetic narrative.
20:45 Torrey Philemon: Yes, I just looked it up. Ovid goes into detail in regard to Myrrha's transformation. Strange how he glosses over some stories and goes into such depth on others.
20:47 Torrey Philemon: In searching on golden apples, I found references not only to the golden apples of the Hesperides but also golden apples in Scandinavian mythology. http://library.advanced.org/13803/stories/idun.html The golden apples in Scandinavian myth kept the gods young.
20:48 Torrey Philemon: I still wonder if there's any particular reason for certain kinds of transfromations, like those changed into trees. So many are, for different reasons. Not only related to sex or violation or rape though, also grief.....
20:49 Morgana Flavius: Atalanta story is related to sex... and having sex in a sacred place was held as big offense... I wonder why...
20:49 Torrey Philemon enters...
20:51 Torrey Philemon: Aphrodite was very indirect here......spurred Hippomenes to desire Atalanta so he violated Cybele's sacred temple and incurred her anger. I wonder why Aphrodite didn't directly punish them herself, rather than spur them into Cybele's hands.....It seems that the sacred territory of the gods and goddesses must be respected and honored. I think Agamemnon had to sacrifice Iphigenia because he went hunting in Artemis' sacred grove. One apparently has to be on best behavior in sacred territory.
20:53 Torrey Philemon: When I tell the Atalanta story, as I used to in my Myths to Live By seminar, I always left off the ending. It's a nice story, with Atalanta surrendering to Hippomenes and marrying him, until the transformation into lions. Too bad that part was added on. Otherwise it's a story of a woman identified only with her male side who surrenders to her feminine side and finally allows herself to fall in love. And a man Hippomenes who uses his own feminine side to win her over, rather than meet her on her own athletic terms.
20:53 Morgana Flavius: But having sex was considered bad behavior? I always thought that sex was something viewed as good by gods...
20:55 Torrey Philemon: Maybe sex is good as long as it's not done in a goddess' temple! Maybe the only sex that the goddess wants in her own temple is her own sexual activity! <-: (I used to belong to a personal growth center that rented a church. The minister was showing the church to some church bigwigs from out of town when they all stumbled into a couple making love on the altar. They had left the workshop for some hanky panky. Well the personal growth center immediately lost its lease and the church was outraged!)
20:59 Morgana Flavius: Well, yes... I guess that the judaic-christian traditions "infected" many present religions that do not allow sex in their temples!
21:00 Torrey Philemon: (I wonder if the Church is more openminded in regard to sexuality in your part of the world, Morgana)
21:01 Morgana Flavius: Oh, no way, Torrey! On the contrary! Churches seem to be very tied to the traditional values here. On the other hand, people seem to be growing more and more tolerant regarding sexual practices when they're out of church.
21:03 Torrey Philemon: I know this is a terrible generalization, but when I've read novels by South American writers......and I'm not sure they've been from Brazil.....they always seem to express a kind of natural physicality or sensuality that American writers don't seem to be able to capture......And isn't Brazil very open to steamy soap operas?
21:03 Torrey Philemon: But I guess the steamy soap operas have nothing to do with the Church!
21:06 Morgana Flavius: Right, Torrey. I feel (and yes, it is a dangerous generalization) that the behavior people show in "official" occasions (like when they're at a church) are radically different than those they show when they're on their less "official" activities. At least, here in Brazil...
21:08 Torrey Philemon: Well, Morgana, I need to go in the next few minutes.......
21:09 Torrey Philemon: I hope you'll have more time for reading now and that your very busy schedule is diminishing........time to catch up with Purgatorio too! Shall we do our next Ovid chat in 2 or 3 weeks, on book 12?
21:10 Torrey Philemon: I may not have Fridays anymore......but Saturday June 26th might be possible.
21:11 Morgana Flavius: Yes, the second part of the month of June will be less demanding for me... I guess I could do next Ovid chat in 2 weeks.
21:11 Torrey Philemon: Should we wait two weeks or three weeks?
21:12 Morgana Flavius: Let's make it 3 weeks. I want to have some room for Dante too. ;o)
21:12 Torrey Philemon: Why don't we wait three weeks for Ovid (and have another Purgatorio chat in 2 weeks?)
21:13 Torrey Philemon: Right. We both just made the same decision at the same time (Great minds think alike! <-; )
21:13 Morgana Flavius: Ah, Torrey, Fridays and Saturdays are not so good for me now... Is possible for you on Wednesday or Thursday?
21:14 Torrey Philemon: Ah not good. I'm working till about 9:30pm on weekdays. I could do 10pm but that's 11pm your time ....on Wednesday or Thursday. But I think we'll lose Myrrhine since she needs a weekend in Australia.
21:15 Morgana Flavius: oh, I see... Ok. I can always manage to be here on Saturdays, with some arrangements...
21:15 Torrey Philemon: Maybe we raise the issue on Mythquest......there not so many of us, so we need to be clear on times that work best for those committed to attending the chats.
21:16 Torrey Philemon: If you can do Saturday for the next chat that would be great. We could see what we could do after that. How about if I announce three Saturdays from now and see who can make it, and what they suggest for the future......?
21:17 Morgana Flavius: Saturday, 3 weeks from now should be ok for me.
21:18 Morgana Flavius: Books 12 and 13? (two more books and we'll finish Metamorphoses! Doesn't it feel good?) :-)
21:18 Torrey Philemon: Great!! Let's take it from there.........Nice to talk to you again here! I look forward to more of your posts on our bulletin boards.......
21:19 Torrey Philemon: Do you want to do both Book 12 and 13 or just book 12?
21:20 Morgana Flavius: Good! Needless to say that it was great meeting you too, Torrey! Let's try both books, although I think we'll do only one. *wink*
21:21 Torrey Philemon: Ok we'll try for both but expect to focus more on book 12! See ya!

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