The Odyssey Chats at Ancient Sites
Odyssey Chat Transcripts
Greek and Roman Mythology Pages from Ancient Sites by Tracy Marks
NOTE: Many Community members of "Athens" at Ancient Sites (which folded in 1999) participated in biweekly chats on the classics, including the Iliad and the Odyssey by Homer. Later, several of us continued with the chats, studying The Metamorphoses by Ovid and other texts related to ancient Greek and Roman history. Many of these chats have been posted online by Tracy Marks (alias Torrey Philemon from Ancient Sites). Each participant maintains his/her own copyright; this material may not be reproduced.
CHAT FIVE: Odyssey, Books 17-20 continued
Back to beginning of chat
13:11 Hetaira Lysias enters...
Artistides: Or, forgive me for going out on a Freudian limb, maybe
Penelope's subconscious is betraying the idea that she might like all the
attention the birds have been giving her.
Philemon: Welcome, Myrhhine...Well, it's puzzling. My first impression
of the dream is that the geese are something she treasures, and that the
eagle is the "bad guy". The interpretation given then reverses it
Lysias: Hey there folks. *groggy smile*
Glaucon: Welcome to the world of light, Hetaira. <g>
Nestor: BTW, gang, Gorgo sends her regrets.
Philemon: Heh heh Maia might dispute that, Theseus! (the old Is-Penelope-at-all-at-fault
Inca: Theseus - good point. Who isn't flattered by attention a little
bit, even if unwanted, if it isn't TOO annoying.
Lysias: Hey Athenia, Theseus, maia and anyone else I can't focus properly
on at the moment. :)
Glaucon: Maybe, Torrey, she doesn't "enjoy" watching the geese as much
as she finds them amusing.
Nestor: Now come on, Torrey, I never said she was without fault! She'd
be perfect then, and perfection is boring.
Artistides: Now, how am I going to keep the goofy grin off my face?
Nestor: Hetaira stayed up way too late last night partying with me.
Philemon: I'm partly teasing you, Maia!
Lysias: Why would that be Freudian Theseus? *curious look*
Artistides: Whoa, the dream interp. thing was just an idle thought!
Nestor: Just partly, Torrey? *grin*
Lysias: Dream interpretation by way of Freud is pretty limited, he
always took it back to the basics; penis-envy, id and unresolved childhood
Artistides: Ah, then I am mistaken... The subconscious is hardly my
Philemon: Fagles: I keep 20 geese in the house, from the water trough/
they come and peck their wheat - I love to watchm them. But down from a
mountain swooped this great hook-beaked eagle.
Lysias: Now a Jungian interpretation of the dream might uncover some
interesting archetypes. Birds in particular could be seen as freedom, flight
from responsibility, so on. :)
Nestor: And the conscious, Theseus?
Artistides: And Freud is even further down there on my list of specialties.
Artistides: I'm certainly better with the conscious.
Lysias: I think he might have even said birds were higher thought processes.
Philemon: The eagle is so often an omen....divine intervention.
Glaucon: And geese are certainly earthy birds, commonplace, where eagles
were more lofty, more "of the Gods."
Nestor: As a rule, I always defer to oracles and hetairae.
Inca: Domesticity vs. the Hunter. The stay-at-home suitors defeated
by the homecoming warrior?
Philemon: I get hung up on the part about "she loved to watch" the
geese ( I'm a dream therapist and lead dream interpretation groups
in real life, so I can get carried away with this)
Lysias: Divine intervention in that time, the higher mind in this time?
There was no ego, super-ego or anima/animus in Homer's day. *grin*
Glaucon: Hetairae first - they know everything.
Philemon: Maia, that's a great "signature line"!
Glaucon: But that might be Fagles's words, not Penelope's. Anyone else
got a different translation?
Lysias: Yeah actually, I just saw Aurora's comment, I like that.
Nestor: And that's a good point, Hetaira...there were omens in Homer's
time, but certainly no consciousness of the subconscious.
Philemon: Hetaira, I'd think it was all there, they just called it
by another name. Hubris for one..
Lysias: I have Fitzgerald's around here *searching*
Inca: What book is the "loved to watch" in? I haven't read that far....
Artistides: I'm thinking 19.
Philemon: There's some theory isn't there Maia about the development
of the human brain since Homer's time. Like the right brain and left brain
were configured differently...and what was in the "unconscious" was once
projected onto gods/omens and actually heard as "voices". Forget the source,
there's some book on the subject...
Lysias: So Hubris in that day an age translates to what in common day?
Not being true to your higher mind?
Philemon: In Fagles, it's 19:606...
Glaucon: That's pretty much the way it is in most aboriginal cultures.
Folks who "see" or "hear" things are touched by the gods.
Nestor: Hubris is just being insolent towards the gods. Well, Torrey,
I don't ascribe to that theory...human evolution works far more slowly
than that. It's just cultural differences...
Nestor: Are you thinking of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes, Torrey?
Inca: OK. Lawrence says "and I love wtaching them"
Philemon: I brought up hubris in reference the comment about no conception
of EGO or the unconscious...
Glaucon: My ancient translation says that the geese "gladden her eyes."
Inca: I've read that, too, Torrey. Though I don't remember where. And
those that still hear them as voices, we treat with medication.
Philemon: That may be the source, Maia.
Nestor: In simpler times, things were simpler.
Artistides: I agree with Maia on the cultural vs. evolution aspect.
(But apparently, I have nothing new to add.)
Glaucon: Its by S.O. Andrew from the 1953 Everyman's library. My mom
or dad stole it from the public library. ;-)
Nestor: Like Agamemnon, when he is trying, in the Iliad to say why
he acted in such a way, just shrugs his shoulders and says ATE....
Nestor: They had a very simple heroic code, and that is how they lived.
None of this, my father left me, my mother was a tramp....they didn't THINK
in those terms.
Lysias: Yes, I know, and I was asking for clarification Torrey, you
threw hubris out there, quantify it for me in present day psychology so
that I know I'm getting the message correctly.
Lysias: Please. :)
Philemon: My reference to hubris was just an aside. Just musing on
different conceptions of ego, in different ways, at different times...
Lysias: Okay, just checking. I thought you had something specific in
Artistides: I thought hubris was overweaning arrogance, in particular
in relation to a mortal and the gods and/or fate.
Nestor: Yes, just real insolence. Believing in yourself to the exclusion
of the gods.
Artistides: Is it time for another question?
Lysias: I think we established that Theseus, I was actually thinking
about how hubris works in post depth-psychology minds. :)
Lysias: i.e. would hubris be someone with control issues? *grin*
Glaucon: We'd probably call it sociopathy.
Philemon: Anyone else want to put out a question? I always have a reservoir
of them, but let's see what you all have.
Artistides: "post depth-psychology minds"?
Lysias: Meglomania Athenia?
Lysias: Yeah Theseus...post Freud/Jung.
Artistides: Oh, I get it. Never mind.
Glaucon: No, because that allows for other people, even if only as
tools. sociopathy is about "me."
Artistides: I seem to be somewhat slow today.
Lysias: I'm with ya Theseus. *tired smile*
Artistides: (Let me know when it's nap time.) *grin*
Glaucon: Nap time! Followed by milk and cookies for the whole class!
Lysias: Oh, don't go there Theseus. *grin*
Artistides: I think there are people (absolutely not me!) who would
say our entire modern culture suffers from hubris.
13:35 Athenia Glaucon enters...
Philemon: You all are reaffirming my theory that 1 1/2 hours into an
"educational" chat people need a breather and want to regress!
Glaucon: Not all of us, but there are quite a few who do.
Artistides: Aw, and that's my favorite place, too! *faux pout*
Lysias: Nietsche (sp?) is to blame Theseus; God Is Dead. ;)
Nestor: I have more of an observation than a question; it is clear
to me that out of all the characters Homer did, he truly loved Odysseus
the most. Seemed enthralled with the character.
Philemon: Interesting point, Theseus.
Glaucon: No, it was the age of "reason" that did it.
Lysias: Forgot a "z" somewhere along the line. *scratching head*
Artistides: Yeah, I can usually take about two hours of chat like this
Philemon: Why do you say that, Maia? Because he presents Odysseus in
such a positive light?
Inca: I think we regressed earlier with the "ways of describing entering
Glaucon: I don't think he does present O. in a positive light, but
certainly a more real light.
Glaucon: Oh, dear - I'm glad I missed that part, Aurora. :-)
Artistides: Maybe we just need to run around the playground.
Nestor: Well as a writer, you know you can fall in love with your character.
He made Odysseus the most rounded of all his, imo. A modern, thinking on
his feet human...it was clear he admired him enormously.
Lysias: O seems very human to me, meaty and substantial, like Homer
based him on someone he knew.
Inca: *ring* RECESS!!!!
Lysias: I have dibs on the swings!
Artistides: I'm also fascinated by the utter lack of moral stigma attached
to lying throughout this book.
Nestor: Someone he knew, or someone he had learned to love; Homer was
using a tradition that was already there, right?
Nestor: Ah Theseus...again, that's because a hero survived. A hero
did what he could to effect the survival. He was brave. Lying isn't seen
by them as cowardly.
Philemon: Right, Theseus. There's even one point at which Odysseus
says he hates men who lie...they're the lowest of the low, or something
Glaucon: I get the seesaw!
Lysias: This is true maia.
Glaucon: Maia speaks from the same perspective as Homer - she also
loves O. :-)
Artistides: (I always go for the monkey bars, myself. But if
Hetaira needs a push or a dozen, I'm happy to offer my services.)
Lysias: I would think truth/falsehoods were very much tied in with
honor in that time, so they were more open to interpretation....one lie
is not as bad as another type o' thing
Philemon: Book 14: 184, Odysseus says, "I hate that man who like the
very Gates of Death who/ground down by poverty stoops to peddling lies...
Lysias: I'm so there Theseus, push away. :)
Artistides: I don't think the dishonesty is mysterious, but the way
Homer revels in it at times is, for me, fascinating.
Philemon: Now folks, it's my avatar who's sitting on a swing! (-:
Nestor: Echoing what Achilles said? But Achilles meant it...
Nestor: Yes, Athenia...you've nailed me right! I do love him...
Glaucon: You know, H., of the significance of the swing, don't you?
Philemon: Odysseus however isn't stoopingto peddling lies. He's rising
to the occasion, supposedly for a higher purpose (like mass murder. Did
you read the contemporary news story interpretationof Odysseus as a mass
Artistides: (I can do the hopping from one to the other, pushing both
of you. Hmmm, that's... oh, never mind!)
Lysias: Yeah, but I got dibs on the swings. *sweet smile* And the Enforcer
is here to police the playground.
Nestor: There's a bit in the Iliad when O is facing a force bearing
down on him, and he thinks it through; should I stay and be slaughtered?
Or run to fight for my cause another day? NO ONE else in Homer ever thinks
in those terms...his mind is a wondrous thing.
Glaucon: Is it mass murder to defend your home from a threat. Torrey,
you come home and a gang has taken it over. ASre you going to ask them
nicely to leave? Or go in with Swat and PBI?
Glaucon: Uh, FBI, not PBI
Lysias: I could see that sort of interpretation for Achilles a lot
faster than Odysseus. *bemused look*
Nestor: Odysseus has never done well in later times, Torrey. He's too
Philemon: Well, Athenia, Odysseus today would have gone to jail for
what he did! A different context.
Nestor: What those people don't realize is that he was COMPELLED to
act as he did, in re the suitors. They had committed a crime that has no
modern equivalent. He was king, he was host, he had been violated. Probably
treason comes close...
Lysias: Or ended up in Waco. ;)
Artistides: (You're not still wearing those heels are you, sweet Hetaira?)
Nestor: And what he did was sanctioned, even mandated, by the gods.
Lysias: Not at the moment Theseus, don't want to tower over everyone
in the room.
Nestor: Theseus, stop flirting!
Artistides: I for one, am really looking forward to Suitorfest '98,
as I think Hetaira put it last week.
Nestor: Good girl, H...you know I'm only tall in my own mind.
Artistides: But, then, I'm the representative blood-thirsty male.
Lysias: Shoes are so complicated right now. *blink* There is
nothing but coffee, life and Waco. Uhhh, anyway.
Artistides: I was just worried about catching one in the forehead while
pushing this swing.
Glaucon: You did promise me you'd wear the boots that go with your
secret intelligence force hat...
Glaucon: Right - we were talking about Odysseus.
Lysias: Well boots are easier! No straps.
Glaucon: Is there no crime that's the same? I think having your house
invaded and you're family held captive is pretty much a timeless crime.
Lysias: Yeah, what Athenia said. I'm lurking and caffienating. Is that
Philemon: Next subject, anybody?
Nestor: If it isn't, it should be, H.
Nestor: Are we through calling O a mass murderer yet?
Lysias: I am, but I was calling Achilles a mass murderer, I think.
Glaucon: I'll back you up M. Last week we called Athena manipulating
and it got my hackles up. ;-)
Artistides: Oh, I don't think of O as a mass murderer! I think
he's the wrath of the gods embodied! He's the man!
Lysias: Nooo, that's Aphrodite, Athena is a quasi-trickster. Duh. ;)
Inca: Now there's a title for a modern, updated version "Odysseus,
Glaucon: Achilles isn't a mass mrdereder - he's a sports hero, a figure
of great skill. His "sport" happens to be war, in a world where life was
cheaper than it is now.
Lysias: Hey yeah Aurora, we can get Busta Rhymes to sing it. ;)
Glaucon: Well said, H. Who says hetaira's are unintelligent. :-)
Lysias: Well now Athenia, you put me in my place. *big grin* I find
that sooo attractive.
13:54 diopan Nestor enters...
Lysias: Achilles BMOC
Artistides: (Or maybe it's just that our sports stars are too pampered.
Glaucon: <slap you down> Stop it this instant!
Philemon: Ok here's another question: Why does Athena inspire Penelope
"to display herself to her suitors, inflame them more?"
Glaucon: That too, Theseus.
Glaucon: Because she realizes that men think with their willies and
will be easier to manipulate.
Nestor: She despises them, Torrey. Wants to torture them...wants them
to think their reach won't exceed their grasp before lowering the boom.
Lysias: Well now, I always thought Penelope had a masterplan that included
giving the appearance of interest in the suitors?
Nestor: good point, Athenia. I was refraining out of deference to Theseus
Artistides: Hey! I resent that! It's true, but I resent it nevertheless.
Philemon: My impression is it's part of increasing the drama, turning
up the heat...and maybe a sign of Penelope beginning to feel alive again.
Lysias: You represent that then, Theseus. :)
Glaucon: Don't worry, maia, its my job to speak the truth.
Lysias: brb the coffee machine is whispering things to me...
Glaucon: Torrey - ita also one of the few real "powers" women have
over men in this saga.
Artistides: On the advice of my attorney, Mark Twain, I am going to
sit still and silent, at least for now.
Philemon: Hetaira's hearing voices...
Glaucon: Penelope is going to have to do whatever she can, and its
damn littel, to keep control of this situation.
Glaucon: Hi diopan!!
Philemon: Interesting point, Athenia. Penelope has the power to turn
the men on, but hasn't had the power to turn them off...
Lysias: noooo, I'm hearing the coffee pot, big difference.
Inca: Must be the Caffeinius, the god of coffee
Glaucon: But when they are turned on, they're more likely to turn on
each other and not her.
Nestor: hi everybody
Philemon: Good line, Aurora. (We ought to write a parody on the Greek
gods. That's a good one)
Lysias: It's a very distinctive voice, promising me the speedy return
of my brain cells if I drink deep.
Glaucon: Its been done - "All hail to the Goddes caffeina, she lives
by the coffe machina." She sits on my desk at work.
Lysias: Could be Caffenius...is he a Alto?
Inca: Think of the gods we have now! What's important to our culture?
Caffeinius would be right up there near the top.
Philemon: Personally, I honor Nicotinus
Inca: One of the household gods!
Glaucon: I also sugges the book "found Goddesses" by two women with
stupid names that i forget.
Nestor: Is this what they call digressing? *smoking and sipping my
Glaucon: I'm a big worshipper of Asphalta, who grants us parking places
Inca: *sipping my coke - the carbonated version of the God*
Lysias: I would build a shrine to Caffeinius and Nicotinus, make offerings
of sugar and cream, deck out my villa with ashtrays. Woah, why I am running
Glaucon: We did need a recess, after all.
Artistides: LOL!!! Athenia!
Glaucon: Drinking tea...
Nestor: I'm with you, H...except for the sugar part. We diabetics,
Inca: And we all are here paying devout attention to Compuerdorus.
Philemon: Well my question about Athena turning up Penelope's heat
buttons didn't exactly inspire a switch back to serious conversation (-:
Inca: meant Computerdorus.
Glaucon: "Blessed Asphalta, fair of face, help us find a parking space."
Lysias: Serious conversation is highly overrated, I'm going to find
a RAM chip to sacrifice to Computerdorus...
Inca: We need a name the gods of the 90's contest, don't you think?
Glaucon: You guys obviously haven't found the "office Gods" series,
have you? Phonia, Faxus, Computerus, Caffeina...
Artistides: (I'm reminded of the line from a Monty Python skit, "Do
you have Fifty Ways to Start a Fight, by an Irishman whose name I can't
Inca: Actually, as a high priestess of Machu Picchu, I routinesly enter
the main AS chat and sacrifice a cyber-llama to the cybergods before making
any major system changes. I have been seen doing this here, really.
Philemon: Hey you all could write a really good 20th century parody
of the gods...
Lysias: Yep Theseus, I know that one! *laughing*
Lysias: That sounds, erm, messy Aurora.
Inca: It's only cyber-blood.
Glaucon: As an oracle here, I tend to keep the sacrifices small...
Inca: I move we name the new gods as part of our Calliope discussion
board. (a good way to generate interest).
Lysias: Oh well then, nevermind. *grin* I think I might sacrifice
a mainframe though, before major system changes.
Artistides: That's a great line, Aurora! "It's only cyber blood."
Philemon: Well, are we sacrificing "sacred bull" here?
14:08 Athenia Glaucon enters...
Lysias: Oh boy, Mithraism can't be far behind...
Inca: I am well-rested, and therefore silly, today.
Glaucon: I entered? Cool! <looking around for me>
Philemon: Or should I say, should we continue with the BULL or STEER
the conversation back to the Odyssey?
Glaucon: I am always silly...well rested or not.
Nestor: You're so trickful, A, as my nephew says...
Lysias: Athenia like a good entrance, or two.
Inca: Well,is anybody going to second the motion, or is it too silly?
Artistides: What are followers of Mithraism called, by the way?
Lysias: I'll second it!
Nestor: Steer away...
Glaucon: I second! What were we talking about?
Inca: Maybe when we get it together, we could submit it to the Glaux.
Philemon: Aurora, I like the idea of doing more with this naming of
the gods, but maybe not on Calliope. It sort of fits mythquest.
Lysias: Sacrificing a mainframe to some bulls, duh.
Nestor: Penelope torturing the suitors...and she got some great gifts
out of it, too. My kind of gal...
Inca: I kind of thought of it as a creative outgrowth of our Odyssey
stuff, but whatever...
Lysias: Oh yeah, that too. *nod*
Philemon: Ok another question. So why does Penelope decide finally
to marry? Social obligation...because it was Odysseus' wish (when T came
of age), and for the sake of Telemachus and the preservation of her house?
Philemon: (Aurora, it's a good idea and could be a lot of fun!)
Artistides: Okay, what does everyone think of the implication that
the serving girls who have "misbehaved" are going to be killed too?
Nestor: I am so glad to have really met you, Aurora! You are too funny....
Philemon: Their guilt is primarily in sleeping with the suitors, right?
Lysias: Yeah, what maia said, your keen Aurora!
Glaucon: I think its harsh - but they may bear sons to these suitors,
who will be obliged to take revenge....its got to be done.
Nestor: They were betraying their mistress, Torrey. Again, not just
their mistress...but their queen.
Inca: Thank you. *bowing humbly*
Glaucon: Yea Aurora!! Cha cha cha (japanese for Ra ra ra!)
Artistides: I'm all for exterminating the suitors, but do they have
to get rid of the girls? Particularly the really *friendly* ones?
Lysias: Those wacky Japanese. Cha cha cha?
Nestor: Are we gonna cha cha now? *looking about hopefully*
Glaucon: One, two, cha cha cha...
Philemon: GROAN, Theseus!
Lysias: They fall pretty low on the food chain Theseus, despite our
present day feelings about it.
Nestor: Good point, Athenia...but I think it's even simpler than this.
Those who betray must pay for it. They did the crime, they were now out
Glaucon: I've been watching ALOT of anime recently. <embarrased
Nestor: *thus spaketh Testosteronus Aristides*
Lysias: My condolences Athenia....don't you find that big pupil thing
a lil' unnerving?
Inca: And I thought I was going to come here today and be SERIOUS.
Philemon: You know one of the suitors was supposedly a good guy too.
Amphinomos. Penelope likes him best, and he's the most civilized, but he's
Lysias: Blame Cafiwhatshisname, he did it Aurora.
Glaucon: Not really, and i love the bizarre subtexts.
Nestor: The best intentions gaft on agley, Aurora. ????
Glaucon: Good or bad, he's still an invader...
Inca: Well, if Penelope likes him, he's the biggest threat to O.
Artistides: Oh, see! I never even thought of that name!
However, Athenia's vengeance slant makes me feel much better about the
Nestor: Because he was part of it, Torrey. He could have left, he could
have refused to take part, but he stayed.
Glaucon: Its not vengeance - its justice.
Nestor: The lesson had to be absolute. And remember, they were all
plotting Telemachos' murder...and they would have killed O if they had
been given the chance.
Philemon: That's what i figured, maia. He missed his chance to save
Glaucon: I'm not sqeamish about blood. I have ethics, but from O's
point of view - he's got to go.
Lysias: The suitors got all sorts of warnings too, how many omens do
you need to figure it out? "Get out, it's evil!" painted on the wall? Sheesh.
Artistides: Is that line from "Deathwish" Athenia?
Nestor: Yes Athenia...yes! Hey, all that anime isn't doing you any
real harm, thankfully....*grin*
Nestor: From Athena's pov, too.
Nestor: Good point, Hetaira!
Philemon: What would Telemachus' situation be if Penelope had married
one of the suitors (we could write an alternate scenario too). I mean,
would he still have been a threat...inheritor of the royal house or something
Lysias: anime harmful? Nahhh, just stilted in the dialogue department.
Artistides: LOL - Very good point, Hetaira!
Glaucon: <swinging a mean stick> I am NOT bloodthirsty! Okay, I
Glaucon: Not the stuff I'm watching, its damn twisted.
Nestor: Oh yes, Torrey...he would have been history so damned fast...
Philemon: Someone want to write an alternate script? What would have
Nestor: They were after the kingship after all, and made noises that
he could keep his house, but that never would have happened.
Glaucon: Good question Torrey - was possession 9/10 of the law?
Lysias: Personally, I'll take a nice Aeon Flux any day of the week.
She's a babe!
Philemon: So Penelope's choosing to marry wouldn't have helped Telemachus
after all? It would only have fulfilled her obligation to follow Odysseus'
Glaucon: It definitely wouldn't have helped Telemachus if she had a
child by her new husband!
Artistides: Uh-oh, something's not right here...
Nestor: No, it wouldn't have helped him in the long run at all. And
she knew it. She was quite brilliant, I think; achieving that exquisite
balance. Once the suitors made it clear that they wouldn't be leaving,
she kept it all together in an exemplary balancing act.
Nestor: Once one of the suitors was king, regardless of offspring,
Telemachos would have been a threat.
14:25 Theseus Artistides enters...
Nestor: can't it be that she lost hope of him coming and got lonely?
Lysias: And her test for the suitors was pretty inventive.
Nestor: No, diopan...I think she makes it clear that she really despises
them. They dishonor her, don't they? They don't listen...they don't leave
when she asks them to.
Philemon: (Who could ever get lonely enough to marry one of those pigs?)
Nestor: Well guys, it's been a slice but I have to take my leave. Theseus,
Philemon: And she overhears them talking about killing Telemachus.
She actually starts spying on them, overhearing their conversation.
Lysias: Yeah, what maia said, I need to blow this popstand too.
Glaucon: Oh no!!! Maia...you're always the soul of the conversation?
Who's going to keep Theseus and Hetaira under control? :-)
Nestor: Later, everyone!
Philemon: So you all want to officially end?
Glaucon: Yeah, maybe not a bad idea...
Lysias: I'm not controllable. *mild smile*
14:29 maia Nestor exits...
Inca: I was just thinking that I need to be moving on. Perhaps I can
manage a more serious mode for the next chat.
Glaucon: Bye H.! I'm sure I'll run into you soon. <s>
Glaucon: Okay, I guess I'll go too....bye!
Philemon: I need to go soon myself. Is there anything anyone wants
to bring up in closing? And anyone willing to lead the next/last chat?
Lysias: Oh yeah, I'm going to be at your open house with my video tapes
and phone transcripts, remember?
Lysias: Later folks!
Glaucon: I look forward to it...
14:30 Hetaira Lysias exits...
14:30 Athenia Glaucon exits...
Philemon: Who's still here?
Inca: I am, but about to leave.
Philemon: Ok, well then I guess we're over for today!
Inca: OK. Bye. I'll try to be at the next/last one.
14:32 Aurora Inca exits...
Philemon: Goodbye Aurora and anyone else who is here ...
back to beginnning
of chat five
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